| QUERY AND RESPONSE |
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| (an excerpt from ABC News New York’s interview with Pastor Apollo C. Quiboloy) |
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Are you the Second Coming of Christ?
Why do you live in wealth and abundance?
Does God really speak through you?
Straightforward answers to straightforward questions
most people ask the Appointed Son of God.
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Tell me your life story; you grew up in this area
from a poor family? |
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PASTOR: I was born here (The Prayer Mountain). My parents
came from Pampanga in the Island of Luzon up north. We are called
Kapampangans. My father was very adventurous and amongst all of
his siblings and families, he was the only one who came over here.
This land was nothing in the 40s and 50s.
The Philippine President then was calling all the citizens to come over
and invade this land and take some of the adventures, if they wanted to
have home lots and land properties. My father took advantage of that
and he ended up in this mountain. We were nine children in the family,
I am the youngest and I was the only one born here.
We were in Pampanga in my formative years and after that we came
back to Mindanao and I fi nished my high school here and then I went
directly to a Bible College. But I practically grew up in this place. I
learned two dialects and I learned both the Kapampangan and Visayan
customs. This is why I am very familiar with the people’s customs
here and in Luzon. |
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When did you enter the ministry? |
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PASTOR: I entered the ministry in the early 70s. I graduated from
Bible College and went into evangelistic works. And after four years
of evangelizing, I was called by the Lord God Almighty into a personal
ministry like this. I did not understand it at fi rst because all I
had was denominational and religious mentality. That was what I read
in the Scriptures like the calling of Paul, when he heard a voice; the
calling of Moses, when he saw a burning bush. I knew that was just
history and it’s only in the Bible until I experienced it. |
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It happened to you, when? |
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PASTOR: It happened to me when I was sent as one of the representatives
of my organization to South Korea in 1973. That was when
we had our two-week sojourn in South Korea with the Billy Graham
Evangelistic Ministry. We went there and there was about a million
people in the Yeouido Island of Korea. And in the last day of our twoweek
sojourn there, we had a ballroom service. That’s when a spiritual
experience I did not have, occurred. I heard a voice; I thought I was
just hallucinating or something like that. I heard it in a language I
speak here, we call it Cebuano. I heard a voice [three times], it said,
“Gamiton ta ka,” in English, “I will use you”. I was trying to look
around who was this playing trick with me. I was the only Cebuano- speaking
person there. Canadian and American young people were with me and
I was the only Filipino representative. I was musing about that even when I went home, I asked the Father, “God, who is this?
Is this You? Or this is another spirit trying to trick me, because
You are already using me. I am a travelling evangelist,
a preacher. Why would You say You will use me?”
I did not understand that. I had one spiritual experience after another
that led me to one mountain, not here but in the south of
this island, it’s called Mount Matutum. And the foothill of that is
called Kitbog where I was for a year with the natives and with
these questions in mind, “Who are You, what is this? Why am I
experiencing this?
My colleagues and friends told me that I was going crazy because
it’s unbelievable. But you know, I am not crazy. I kept those experiences
and I am writing these spiritual experiences I had in a book.
But then at the end of the year, I knew it was really God who was
calling me. Just as Saul was called, when he was still a persecutor
and became Paul the Apostle on the road to Damascus. He heard
a voice and I don’t know if someone heard it too. But he asked the
Lord, “Who are you?” And the Lord said, “I am Jesus whom thou
persecuteth.” |
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What happened to you on April 13, 2005? |
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PASTOR: April 13, 2005 is a revelation I received from the
Almighty Father that at that time, He has fi nished all of His
spiritual works that He wanted to fi nish in man through me. So,
if I can give you some insight of that, you know like the problem
of sin that started from the Garden, when the devil said, [this is
one of my questions], “you will not die, but you will become gods
like Him knowing good and evil.” I had a revelation that it was
the origin of sin. When our freedom of choice is used to interpret
good and evil according to us, that is now the beginning of the
life of sin in man because that separates him from God.
The devil was dictating man, “You don’t have to listen to God,
you know what is good and evil. You can now interpret what is
good and evil according to you. Go ahead, don’t mind Him”. So
coming back to God is subjugating your will or your freedom
of choice to His choice; focusing on His Will and subscribing to
what He says about good and evil according to Him. That is what
I understood. I accepted that. I made it a point that my life would
only be dedicated to the Father’s Will and that is the signal that
one man upon this earth who had a serpent seed is now free of
it and God can use him freely like the fi rst Adam who fell in the
Garden. |
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So you believe that you have achieved
that certain level of sin-free existence? |
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PASTOR: Yes. |
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To the point where God in you to be the one
to carry out His message? What did God tell
you on that day? |
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PASTOR: Moses was in the wilderness for forty years. Paul the
apostle was in the deserts of Arabia for 17 1/2 years. I was here for
fi ve years. After I have sojourned here for fi ve years, after all of
these revelations that I had received. I used my freedom of choice
in following Him no matter what because it’s one thing to say,
“I’ll follow You” and it’s another thing to be tried if you’re really
dedicated and committed to what you’ve said. I proved that in
five years and at the end of that I heard the voice of the Father
once again telling me, “Now, you are my Son. I am your Father.”
That is in the spirit. Revelation 21:7 is fulfi lled right now in my
life when He said, “He that overcometh shall inherit all things
and he shall become my Son and I will be his Father.”
Adam and Eve at first were the fi rst created Son [and daughter].
They lost the Sonship and the Kingship over the Father’s creation.
Look at the earth today. When that is restored, Jesus Christ came to
take back the Sonship and the Kingship that we lost. Once He has
taken it by paying the price on the cross, He would look for the fallen
Adamic race to restore it back again because they are the rightful
heirs, since Adam and Eve are not here but we are their progeny. So
He is going to look upon one of us to be able to receive this.
He gave the chance to the people in the Jewish Age, who are also descendants
of the fallen Adamic race. He also gave the chance to the
people in the Church Age. They were not able to fi nish that and the
fi nger of appointment came to me when He called me in Korea
and said, “I will use you.” then I have understood what He meant
when He said that. So I accepted all of that and I was all alone in
this mountain, persecuted, neglected and rejected. But I did not
care because I knew I was in the Father’s perfect Will. But all this
time, my freedom of choice was within me. I can step out of this
place any moment. I can step out of God’s Will any moment to
follow my will again, but I did not do that. I said, “I will finish
this. I will follow Your Will no matter what.” At the end of that,
He told me, “Now, you are My Son.” |
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Most Christians believe that they are the
sons and daughters of God but you say you
are the Son, you are the appointed Second
Coming of Jesus, that’s what you believe? |
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PASTOR: In the denominational interpretation, the Second
Coming of Jesus Christ is a literal second coming of the Jewish
body of Jesus Christ. Well, it did not happen even when these
so called prophets in the Christian era were prophesying about
that because they have the wrong interpretation of the Second
Coming of Jesus Christ.
If ever Jesus Christ would come back in His Jewish
body, as they believe He will, what is He going to come
back for, if man is not restored back to Him, because God’s
residence is man, when man is still full of the serpent seed
although he says he is a Christian? |
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Sir, He says in Matthew 25, “When the Son
of Man comes in all His glory and His angels
with Him, He’ll sit on a throne of glory,
separate the goats from the sheep in the
fi nal judgment… two billion Christians
believe that. |
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PASTOR: In the Church Age, even in the Jewish Age, they
have a wrong interpretation of the Second Coming. |
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So they’re all wrong? |
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PASTOR: Well, if you look at it spiritually and if you listen to
me and compare it, the Second Coming of Jesus Christ can be interpreted
as literal or physical and it can also be interpreted as spiritual.
For us in the Kingdom Age, fi rst of all, it is spiritual. How can He
work in us when we are still not delivered from the serpent seed,
from our own will and when we have not yet surrendered to His Will
fully. That’s why He has to choose each one of us in the Church Age.
But there are so many factions in the Church Age: there’s the Catholic
body, there is the Protestant body, there’s the Pentecostal body,
the Charismatic body. They have all the different interpretation of
these revelations coming unto them. But there’s only one spiritual
work that the Father wanted to do in the spirit of man because He
said, “God is a Spirit, those that worship Him must worship Him
in Spirit and in truth.” (John 4:24)
These are the worshippers that the Father is seeking after. We are
always looking for heaven that’s why we are always waiting for the
Second Coming. We say, “Heaven is being prepared for us.” We’re
happy to go there. We are happy, but is God happy? He cannot dwell
in heaven made of gold. He wanted to dwell in us. How can He
dwell in us when we’ve been high jacked by Satan Lucifer the devil
from the Garden? So the restoration should happen fi rst. If there is
anyone of us that can become a son right now like the fi rst created
son, Adam, then the Father’s Kingdom of Heaven is already here
on earth. |
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And... you are that man? |
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PASTOR: I am so glad that I am that man He has chosen,
but I am not saying I am the only one. I am just the model.
That’s why I’m spreading the Gospel of the Kingdom all over
the world. Anyone who accepts this message and becomes
sons and daughters will also be freed of the serpent seed of
doing their own will, subjugating their will to the Will of the
Father. They’ll become sons and daughters like me. That is the
interpretation of being sons and daughters. |
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Do you perform miracles? |
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PASTOR: For me, the greatest miracle is the changing of
the spirit within. I call that in the Spiritual Revolution, the
dethroning of man’s will that has made man a god to himself
and then changing that and enthroning God’s Will in your life
within. That is the greatest miracle for me.
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I just find it striking that maybe this is the
most beautiful spot in the Philippines and
it’s paid for by some people who live on two
dollars a day.
Jesus taught that it’s easier for a camel to
go through the eye of the needle than a rich
man to pass into the Kingdom of Heaven,
that’s the word in three diff erent gospels.So how do you justify your lifestyle? I mean
your watch could probably feed a hundred
families for a month… |
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PASTOR: Well, the lifestyle that we live is a lifestyle that
all of the Kingdom ministry has proposed and has accepted,
all of us. We are living in the Will of God as I told you. If this
is not the Will of God, if anything of these is not the Will of
the Father, He will not let this happen. Before you see me
come into this level, this was not like this before. I was also
living very poorly with all of the poor people for years and if
the Lord’s Will was for me to stay there all the time and eat
just like the poor people that I had around me, then, I would
have stayed there. |
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…Jesus when He walked the earth,
according to the Bible, lived among
lepers and prostitutes… |
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PASTOR: I lived among them. |
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You have a private jet… |
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PASTOR: I lived among them before I had a private jet… |
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You own world compound with mansions… |
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PASTOR: Before this, I lived among these people and as
I’ve said, if this is not the Will of God. because our existence
in the Kingdom as I said, if you want to come and be a member
in the Kingdom, this is where you live with me everyday
and we come into that level where the Father wanted us to be.
Like for example, if you are telling me that you are a Christian
and you wanted to go to heaven, do you know that literally
if you would like to interpret heaven… heaven is… if I can
interpret it to you literally, heaven is made of gold, of precious
jewels. Its walls are jaspers and emeralds, are you willing to
go there with that kind of a mentality that God is unfair because
some of these people are going to hell?
If ever Jesus Christ would come back in His Jewish
body, as they believe He will, what is He going to come
back for, if man is not restored back to Him, because God’s
residence is man, when man is still full of the serpent seed
although he says he is a Christian? |
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Well, in the Christian’s idea of heaven,
everybody gets a mansion. Everybody lives
on streets of gold… |
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PASTOR: Every member of the Kingdom owns this. Every
member of the Kingdom can come here. I have not stayed in
one of those rooms [the Millennial Houses]. All the members
of the Kingdom get to stay here, these are all theirs, even this
property that was owned by my [biological] father, I have donated
it to the ministry. |
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So we could go down the hill and gather a
hundred of the folks who live in the village
just down the hill and bring them up here and
let them live [with you]? |
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PASTOR: We have adopted so many families. I have
adopted three million children. I am feeding them everyday. I
have the Children’s Joy Foundation. Before I came, these people
were already poor. The Lord has blessed me and everywhere I go,
as I said, these blessings are distributed to all of the people that
would come and subscribe to this ministry.
You have to go deep into this ministry to understand what we are
doing. We’re helping all of those that we need to help. If not, the
Father would bankrupt us because we are in His Will. If this is not
God’s Will for me, I would not stay here for a moment. I would
love to stay in a nipa hut as I had stayed in those two mountains
before with the natives and eat with my bare hands. |
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I think if you were to do that, you would
increase your following ten fold. If you were
to give this away and go live in a hut like you
just described… |
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PASTOR: This is where God brought me. As I said, if this
is not the Will of God, I would not stay here for one minute. I
would not live like this for one minute. But if it is God’s Will,
like for example that jet that you’re talking about, did you
know that in 1983, I had a revelation that the Lord was going
to give me a jet? It is He who gave me that. If you are spiritual,
you can pray to the Father and then the Father will answer you
as He answered me. |
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I think a lot of people have that same
revelation when they buy a lottery ticket. |
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PASTOR: That’s not lottery. I will tell you a revelation I
had in 1983: I had not gone to Luzon because we didn’t have
the resources. All the evangelistic crusades were all in Mindanao.
I was in this certain place in Mangagoy, it’s just about
five hours from here. I was preaching to all of the people as
I did in my evangelistic work. I slept after preaching. I had
a vision that I was riding in a jet. I had a crusade from Hong
Kong and then I was going to Korea to have another crusade.
I was riding in my own jet in this dream-vision of mine. I did
not even have a work in Hong Kong. I cannot even afford to
go to Manila. I did not have a work in Manila, much more
to have a work in Hong Kong, much more, to go to Korea to
have a crusade and much more having my own private jet.
You know that they became a fulfillment in 2009 and everything
the Father has shown me has come to fulfi llment. If it
is not His Will, how can I afford that?
If it is not God’s Will for me to have these things I have, you
can take it away. It is God’s Will that we follow. If it is God’s
Will for us to live like this, you can have a broken heart
looking at me but what can you do? Anything that is God’s
Will… if He wanted me to live like a rat, if He wanted me to
live in wealth or in poverty, it does not matter to me. Put me
there and I’ll be happy as long as it’s God’s Will. But when
He said, that is not my will, don’t put me there. If this is not
God’s Will, any moment I would tell God even right in front
of you, take this all away if it’s not Your will. |
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Amen. John 14:6 says, “I am the way, the truth
and the life. No one goes to the Father but by
me.” Jesus said that. You are man as you said, struggling evangelist
from the Philippines. Why should anybody
watching believe that you’re the way to salvation? |
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PASTOR: So you believe that Jesus Christ is the way, the
truth and the life? |
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That’s what the Bible says. It’s what lots of
people believe. |
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PASTOR: Okay. For example, if you have a religion and my
religion is saying, Jesus Christ said, I am the way the truth and the
life. I would ask you, where is Jesus Christ? Why are you telling
me He is the way, the truth and the life? How can I see Him? How
can I fi nd Him? How do you know the truth? Where can I find Him
and you are pointing Him to me that He is the way, the truth and the
life? How can I fi nd Him? It’s easy to repeat John 14:6 that, Jesus
Christ is the way, the truth and the life. How can I find Him? What
is the way?
This is not vague in the Kingdom. Jesus Christ lives within me.
That is why I am His Son and He is my Father. I am His body. He’s
my Spirit. That’s why when I tell you, I am the way, the truth and
the life, I can point to you Who I am pointing to… Jesus Christ, my
Father that lives in me. When you fi nd me, you fi nd Him because I
will teach you His way and that way is God’s way. It is God’s Will.
Can you say of any other religion who can point to me where Jesus
Christ lives? |
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Well, plenty of people plan to be the Messiah
and all of them… |
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PASTOR: All of them… all religions (have their own versions
of a Messiah). The Catholic religion has a Catholic version
of Jesus Christ. Is that the real Jesus Christ? The Protestant
has a Protestant version of Jesus Christ. The Mormons
have their own version of Jesus Christ. |
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But in almost all of those cases where there are
exceptions, the leaders of those congregations,
sell as the Messenger of God but do not claim
to be God. You’ve taken it to the level that we
find offensive. |
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PASTOR: How can you become a Messenger of God when
you yourself don’t know where He is, how to find Him, and
how to live like Him? |
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If God chose you to be the “One,” to be
the Anointed Son, does that mean you live
completely without sin? |
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PASTOR: Sin is categorized as not doing God’s Will.
When you’re not in God’s Will, you are living a life of sin.
When you are following your will, that is sin. |
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But sinful thoughts… anger, lust. Any of those
things… you don’t experience those in the daily
basis? |
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PASTOR: As a human being? |
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Yes. |
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PASTOR: I have already overcome all of those… In the
fi ve years that I was here (at the Prayer Mountain). That’s why
all of that were settled in the fi ve years that I was here. |
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So, you haven’t sinned in years? |
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PASTOR: I have not followed my own will in these years
that I have been called His Son. I have followed His Will
whatever that will is. |
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Okay. And I do have to ask just because it’s a
part of the public record, there are families who
claimed that you’ve kidnapped their children.
There are people who’ve claimed you’ve used
violence to grab land. How do you respond to
those critics? |
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PASTOR: I’ve been interviewed about that. I have been
interviewed so many times before you: the Philippine media,
other media. I am here, a very law-abiding citizen. And if there
is anything that I did that was against the law, you can always
use the law against me. I am under the law. I am a law-abiding
citizen. I am a God-fearing man. If there is anything that I did
that was against the law, you can charge me… anytime. |
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But you have powerful friends… |
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PASTOR: My friends cannot do anything… if I went
against the law, if I kidnapped somebody, what can my friends
do? They cannot do anything.
As I said, I respect man’s freedom of choice. If it is your freedom
of choice whether it’s your daughter or not, it is her or his
choice to be here, I cannot send her or him away. |
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So what would be the results if one of your followers,
as you said they have a choice, choose
to leave your flock? |
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PASTOR: They can go ahead. |
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…and go back in the world. What will happen
to them for eternity? |
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PASTOR: Well, it’s up to them… if they follow their own
will and they already knew the Will of God. It’s up to them as
long as they knew… |
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Will they go to hell? |
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PASTOR: It’s up to them. They know that. So that’s your
will. If you want to go to hell, no one will stop you. If you
want to go to heaven and follow this way, no one will stop
you too. |
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…but you must know that when you proclaimed
that God has chosen you as the ‘one,’
that is really opening the door to so many comments.
You must be prepared for that. |
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PASTOR: I’ve been prepared for that. I know what
that entails. That entails so much controversies… so
much persecution and I’ve been living through that all of
these years. |
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The Catholic Church must really have you, right? |
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PASTOR: Well, the Philippines is a Catholic nation.
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Have you ever had any discussion with them? Have they ever approached you? |
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PASTOR: I have bishop friends and I have many friends
who are priests. Very surprisingly, they come to appreciate my
message. |
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Really? That’s interesting. Have you ever been
invited to speak in any other denominations? |
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PASTOR: I don’t think they want me. |
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That’s not surprising. ‘Coz you kinda’ blow up
the whole thing...
If you’re really Jesus Christ,
that puts a pin in a lot of people’s belief systems. |
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PASTOR: One guy told me that… he said, “You have overturned
everything we believed”. I said, “But if you have to look
deeper into that, this is the spiritual work the Father wanted to do
in man,” which is totally focused on His Will whatever that will
is. We’ll follow it whether we understand it or not, as long as it is
God’s Will, we are dedicated to that. That is what we’ll do. |
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